Perhaps I should start this by saying that while I don't think people are 100% good, I don't think we are inherently bad either. I like to believe that we will reach a Star Trek like future, where humanity will finally rid itself of racism, sexism, poverty, et cetera. So when we talked about what we would do if we were invisible, I was a bit surprised to hear that many thought a person would do horrible things if they could get away with it.
Now, I definitely think we would all be tempted to steal. Hell, most of us probably would steal. But who would we steal from? We might happily steal a Lamborghini from a rich guy who could easily buy another one, but would we steal a regular old car from somebody we knew? We would even steal a regular car from someone we didn't? Of course I know that people steal cars every day, people murder every single day, but that seems to be a different flavor of person. I'm talking about a regular, empathetic human being. Wouldn't we come up with our own moral code of who we'd steal from? I think most of us would develop a Robin Hood type of conscience about what we'd take.
I know that I wouldn't steal from regular people. I might steal from Wal-mart or a bank or a car dealership. I might steal from, what to me seems like, a big corporation that wouldn't miss whatever I took. But I don't think I could break into a regular person's home and take something--even if I was invisible and would never get caught. That feels wrong. And it's because it feels wrong that I know that, at least for me, justice is the protection of the good, of the weak, of the underdog. Justice is achieved when bad people are stopped and the good triumph.
How many of us (assuming that most of us are not psychopaths) would deliberately hurt others if we were invisible? I don't mean mess with them, scare them a bit by moving their stuff around. How many of us would physically hurt someone just because we can? How many of us would murder someone? I like to think most of us wouldn't.
Even if there are no real laws for every person in place, I believe that people would set their own regulations. Like Thalia was saying she may not steal from a common man but she would steal from a rich person and while that may seem like an "okay" thing to do because the rich guy can purchase a new car, does that mean we should take it away from him? Perhaps the guy can just go out an buy a new Lambo, but we do not know if that guy worked really hard to get what he wanted. Everyone is physically capable of doing the same things with or without the invisible powers of this ring. The reasons we may not do so maybe different, maybe we do not want to get punished or maybe we do not want to get look at differently.
ReplyDeleteThere are certain ways at perceiving a subject. If you have the opportunity of being invisible and you want to use it for doing evil and stealing for the need or greed like robbing a bank and aggravation or harming someone. Then yes this could cause chaos and it would be similar to a purge. On the other hand, you could use this advantage of invisibility to do good deeds, it is wrong to steal but if you could steal for those in need would you? The only thing that seems rewarding besides this advantage of this invisibility is the fact that whatever you chose to do, you wouldn't be penalized for it.
DeleteI think this post begs the question; do we do what we do because it’s right or because it’s the law? I think most of us would like to think we wouldn’t do anything differently if we were invisible, but the reality is we would all probably act much differently. Be it for the good of a society, or the bad. I think the question asked above could go either way. Do I think that every law ever passed is right? No, but I abide by them because that’s what society has decided is the right thing to do. Everyone holds different values, therefore affecting the actions they make. One person might take from the rich and give to the poor while someone else may steal to gain internal satisfaction. The ideas of “right” and “wrong” differ for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that everyone's personal boundaries are different. However, I think most of the world has a similar type of right (treat others how you would like to be treated) and wrong (don't cause harm to others).
DeleteAnd if I may ask, would you abide by an unjust law, though? I'm asking you this personally, not taking into consideration how all of humanity has reacted or might react. Let's say a law passes that says that from now on all people with blue eyes must be thrown in jail, just because blue eyes is linked with being a criminal. Everyone is now required by law to report to the police anyone who has blue eyes and are just wearing brown contact lenses. Would you report people, since it is the law? If you've ever read Letter from Birmingham by Martin Luther King Jr, he makes some wonderful points about how unjust laws should not be followed. In cases like the fight for civil rights, the fight for women's suffrage, people had to challenge and force the law to change because they were unjust. So if I can offer my own personal response to your question, we do what is right even when it's against the law.
Thalia, although I understand your view and your reasoning behind this situation I must also admit that I disagree with you. If you think about it most people act civilized because of the moral code that society has imposed upon them. In schools, church's , etc. people are taught to behave a certain way; which often makes them oppress sadistic feelings/thoughts. People are aware that a bad action has a consequence; which in fact could be the motif behind their civilized conduct. But what if society said it was ok to kill? Would we still behave in such a proper manner? Probably not. For example, in the holocaust nazi soldiers were trained to look at other human beings as inferiors, leading them to commit genocide. Now I'm pretty sure there were good German people that disagreed with this ideal, but for the most part they were willing to contribute with the massive extinction of "inferior" races. While I believe that people could be born with innate kindness, I also must say that they could be socially conditioned to behave in a moral etiquette.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up some great points, Maritza. There's no denying people can be cruel. Even today, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. is alive and well. I actually quite agree with you that society plays a big part in how we treat others. As you know, I'm a pretty big believer in feminism, and since society says it's ok to treat women as inferiors, a big part of the fight is getting people (both men and women that have internalized the misogynistic garbage society feeds us) to even realize that there is a problem.
DeleteI think the keyword is empathy. Maybe society and churches did impose it on us, but as we grow up, most of us develop empathy towards others. As toddlers we'll take someone's toy and not care how that makes them feel, but hopefully by the time we become adults, most of us realize that we have the power to hurt others. Most of us--I hope--make the choice not to exercise that power. I think it also comes down to what type of world we want to live in. Remember in Dr. H's class how during the Renaissance, two ways of thinking became popular: machiavellianism and christian humanism? Perhaps it's true that deep down we are all just greedy animals that only care about ourselves. But wouldn't it be a better world for all of us if everyone agreed to suppress their Machiavelli side and we all reached for utopia? (Of course, it's entirely possible that maybe I just watch too much Star Trek)
To put it briefly, i see no indication that people are born good or bad. I like to believe that everyone starts with a clear conscience and no opinions. Only when idea and thoughts are introduced to a person can they then form their own opinions. Therefore, if we grow up watching cartoons about bank robbers getting beaten with sticks and sent to jail, we get the idea in our heads that robbing is bad. If we grew up watching Robin Hood, we would probably grow up believing that the rich are jerks and it is okay to steal from them. If you had a mother that was abusive, then you may grow up believing it is okay to hit and abuse others. I don't know if society is really influencing how we act as much as what we are exposed to during our lifetime. Though there is a chance that laws are deterring us from acting in a way that would "displease" the ones in power, you are what you learn to be. If you learn to be an upstanding citizen, then that is how you might live your life. If you would murder the president because you grew up thinging that you could do it, then that is just the kind of person you could be.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part I agree. What we get exposed to in our life helps to determine what we're willing to do. For example, I grew up in some pretty shady neighborhoods and some "crimes" were completely normal to me. Since we don't live in a vacuum, though, everyone knows what some things are considered bad and some things are considered good. What I was hoping to express in my post is that even though we all have different points of views and different upbringings, if we had an invisibility ring, if the Purge was real for one night, most of us wouldn't run out to rape and murder just because we could. I like to think that for most of us (not all, of course, just most) would have a sense of justice that would stop us from violently hurting others.
DeleteYou raise a interesting point. I agree with you for the most part. I think that if we had the power to be invisible I think that for the most part human beings would probably do the right thing in the beginning. Living in Memphis I feel like I would say if people were invisible everyone would be killing everybody because no one is invisible now but bad things happen quite frequently in Memphis. Also we live in one of top fives dangerous areas so people are not like this everywhere. For the most part before people think about doing a crime they at least think about the consequences but they simply don’t care, think of how many times you have wanted to do something but knew the consequences were not worth it. I think that once the power was given it might not be immediate but I think you would slowly start to loose your humanity. Because you would have absolutely no accountability and eventually it would just be easy. Stealing from a large corporation is still stealing regardless that doesn’t make it any better, just because they have a lot of money somebody had to work hard to earn it and in the long run if being invisible was accessible to a lot of people majority would have the same concept. Basically I think if I was invisible and someone pissed me off on the wrong morning and I had the ability to shoot them and get away with I might start to loose my humanity because with no accountability really no reason to have a conscience. I think that as human with that kind of power we start to loose ourselves.
ReplyDeleteThat's a pretty good point, Shelbie. I think we can see it in spoiled kids that grow up to be selfish adults. They subconsciously (and sometimes even consciously) think that they are above everyone else, only their feelings matter, and they never consider how their actions might affect others. We can see what not having boundaries does to a person. Maybe we really would unlearn our morals if we had an invisibility ring.
DeleteHowever, I theorize that if you give an empathetic person an invisibility ring (meaning someone that for the most part at least tries to be a good person) the majority of the crimes committed would be during the first years of getting the ring. After the excitement wears off, after they've seen how far they can take things, I believe they'd mostly settle back down to how they were before. I think the crimes they commit would be victim-less crimes, like going to the movies for free. It kind of reminds me of this quote that floats around the internet: "If human beings could fly, we'd consider it exercise and never do it." Perhaps instead of losing our humanity we'd just have one more cool trick up our sleeve, nothing more.
I agree with your points. If there were no laws we would set up personal ones with a mixture of our natural morality and what were taught in during childhood. Contrary, to what Glaucon said, most people would not derive joy from doing injustice. Even when there would be no laws it would be much harder to kill someone than to leave them alone, contrary to The Purge and The Last of Us are trying to tell people. If I had invisibility, I would be lying if I said that stealing would not cross my mind. However, I, would do it to satiate my(and probably my families) needs and wants not to hurt people or because I would get sick enjoyment out of it.
ReplyDeletePS The Purge was awful, pretentious trash.
DeleteAlthough most of our classmates said that they would use their invisibility to play a joke on someone, I believe that deep inside they would take a judge-like mentality. That mentality is unique to each individual because it is a combination of teachings passed down by our parents and our inner good “the Holy Spirit”. There is no good or bad acceptable percentage that we can put on ourselves. Human beings are so complex that being unpredictable is just one of our characteristics. Having the Ring of Gyges would make us invisible to every human being except for ourselves. What good is it to be able to obtain riches, if at the end of the day we have to be accountable for our actions? I would not want an invisibility ring that is to say I would rather have a peaceful conscience.
ReplyDeleteMe personally I could not cause harm to anyone! Being a person that is very kind hearted and want the best for everyone, hurting or killing someone just because I can is not something I can live with. I will feel morally wrong and I do not see myself living a happy life if I ever did anything live that. Everyone has value to their life and no life to me is greater than the next.
ReplyDelete